Royal Navy - discussione ufficiale

[Flaggy]

Troppo stiracchiato, troppo tardi e...troppo sbagliato per l'ef-2000 che era stato pensato come stobar e non come catobar con attacchi per la catapulta.

Andrebbe ribaltato e sarebbe comunque poco adatto come Catobar senza considerare che parliamo comunque di un'ipotesi scartata da tempo anche come Stobar.

[TT-1 Pinto]

HMS Queen Elizabeth ...

Andata ... royalnavy.mod.uk ... https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2021/march/15/210315-hms-queen-elizabeth-scotland ...

Ritorno ... hampshirelive.news ... https://www.hampshirelive.news/news/hampshire-news/hms-queen-elizabeth-royal-navys-5210379 ...

[Yuri Gagarin]

Con il Vixen, la Royal Navy studia l'uso di un versatile drone da combattimento a bordo from Meta-Defense.fr

la MMI seguira la RN e doterà la sostituta della Cavour di droni e quindi di relative catapulte?

 

 

[Flaggy]

Quella della Royal Navy è solo un'ipotesi (che contempla comunque l'F-35B e che è applicabile solo a navi piuttosto grosse) e non è detto venga realizzata oltremanica e quindi seguita dall'Italia, che ha appena aggiornato il Cavour, il cui sostituto è ancora lontano.

Pare comunque ormai chiaro ed inevitabile che i droni avranno sempre più spazio in tutti i piani di riequipaggiamento di marine ed aeronautiche. Da vedere con che capacità di decollo ed atterraggio si declineranno nel loro per ora convulso sviluppo e quindi che necessità di hardware avranno sulle piattaforme da cui operano.

I droni comunque stanno crescendo sempre più in dimensioni e prestazioni, come hanno fatto i velivoli pilotati. Non a caso qui si parla di qualcosa di stazza non dissimile dall'attuale Rafale a cui la De Gaulle oggi sta pure stretta),

Non è quindi detto non incappino in analoghe limitazioni che oggi precludono agli aerei pilotati l'utilizzo della configurazione CATOBAR nel caso non si voglia navi di tonnellaggio (e costo) esagerato.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Considerando le necessità e sopratutto le possibilità della MM potrebbe essere sufficiente  anche una nave più piccola della De Gaulle, in fondo è difficile andare oltre 16/20 fra f35 e droni, e con una sola catapulta così che anche sul piano energetico non ci dovrebbero essere troppi problemi

qualcosa del genere non sarebbe male

 

Modificato 7 Aprile 2021 da Yuri Gagarin

[Flaggy]

Quel qualcosa usa droni visibilmente "piccoli" e ha la catapulta al posto dello ski jump, indispensabile su una nave da 30-40 mila tonnellate per operare efficacemente gli F-35B. Gli inglesi sfrutterebbero probabilmente la predisposizione per l'ampio ponte angolato per la catapulta.

[Yuri Gagarin]

sì è vero che quel drone cinese è piccolo, in compenso le catapulte elettromagnetiche dovrebbero essere più piccole di quelle a vapore e forse si riuscirebbe a far decollare un drone da 20t anche da una nave di quelle dimensioni, per quanto riguarda lo sky jump se ne dotrebbe fare a meno utilizzando quasi tutto il ponte come fanno i marines.

Modificato 7 Aprile 2021 da Yuri Gagarin

[Flaggy]

Le catapulte elettromagnetiche non sono più piccole di quelle a vapore (che si vogliono abbandonare anche perchè finora hanno richiesto propulsione nucleare o anacronistiche caldaie per produrre il vapore). Al limite hanno una migliore capacità di dosare la forza lungo la corsa della navetta e quindi una maggiore adattabilità a gestire velivoli di peso molto diverso, evitando picchi nella forza impressa e ottimizzando così la vita a fatica delle cellule con minori sollecitazioni.

In lunghezza però in generale sono dimesionate in base alle sollecitazioni che possono reggere i velivoli più grossi che la nave deve lanciare.

Più lunghe sono le catapulte e minore accelerazione media (e sollecitazione) imprimono a parità di velocità di lancio (che su navi lente come le LHD, LHA e le stesse Queen Elizabeth britanniche dovrebbero anche essere maggiori).

Se sono corte su navi piccole è solo perchè sono piccoli gli aerei da lanciare...ammesso e non concesso possano effettivamente essere piccoli, perchè come appunto detto i droni ipotizzati ingrassano come tacchini col passare degli anni...

Quanto allo ski jump, gli americani non lo adottano perchè le loro non sono portaerei, ma al limite LHA o peggio LHD, con tutto quello che ciò comporta in termini di efficienza e capacità di generare sortite con velivoli ad ala fissa, che sono a bordo per essere scaricati alla prima occasione assieme alla Marine Expeditionary Force.

Il disegno che hai proposto non a caso si riferisce alla stessa LHD cinese Type 076 di cui si è parlato settimane fa nella discussione sulla marina cinese. Non è una portaerei e, nonostante i "droni tascabili" dell'immagine, se vogliamo non è poi così piccola visto che sarà intorno alle 40000 tonnellate come le attuali Type 075 (e magari di più).

Non è questione di far decollare o atterrare un aereo, ma di farlo operare efficacemente.

Con navi ed aerei si possono avere e si hanno tante idee, ma per farle funzionare alla fine non si gioca a tetris su ponti e hangar e non si prescinde dai limiti fisici dei mezzi impiegati.

Ai britannici certe idee vengono anche perchè hanno navi da 65000 tonnellate che glielo permettono...

[TT-1 Pinto]

HMS Queen Elizabeth ... allagamento a bordo ... e non è la prima volta ...

... thesun.co.uk ... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14651188/navys-hms-queen-elizabeth-leak/ ...

 

[TT-1 Pinto]

L'imminente, lunga crociera della HMS Queen Elizabeth ...

Quote

The UK’s Carrier Strike Group will visit more than one fifth of the world’s nations when it sails next month.
Led by HMS Queen Elizabeth, the task group will visit 40 nations including India, Japan, Republic of Korea and Singapore in a deployment covering 26,000 nautical miles.
The group will also join up and take part in exercises with French carrier FS Charles De Gaulle in the Mediterranean as well as navies and aircraft from allies such as the US, Canada, Denmark, Greece, Israel, Italy, Japan and the UAE.

... royalnavy.mod.uk ... https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2021/april/26/210426-csg21-deployment ...

[TT-1 Pinto]

Volare, oh, oh ...

... royalnavy.mod.uk ... https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2021/may/05/050521-boarding-trials ...

[TT-1 Pinto]

Partiam, si, si, partiam ...

Quote

The Royal Navy’s Carrier Strike Group (CSG), centered around the 65,000-tonne carrier Queen Elizabeth, has left port on schedule. 
Following a two-week exercise with NATO forces the CSG will head for the Mediterranean and further east on its first operational cruise. 
This will be the first time that the Royal Navy has undertaken an operational carrier deployment since 2010.
Queen Elizabeth left its home port at Portsmouth on the south coast of England on May 1, accompanied by Type 45 destroyers Defender and Diamond, and Type 23 frigate Kent. 
Another Type 23, Richmond, sailed from its base at Devonport, and the CSG is to be joined by the U.S. destroyer The Sullivans, the Dutch frigate Evertsen and an Astute-class submarine. 
Two Royal Fleet Auxiliaries, Fort Victoria and Tidespring, are with the CSG to supply fuel, food, and ammunition.

... ainonline.com ... https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2021-05-04/uk-carrier-strike-group-begins-deployment ...

 

[TT-1 Pinto]

Alle volte i Russi le sparano grosse ...

Quote

Russian fighters and warships did not fire warning shots or drop bombs to warn off U.K. warship HMS Defender (D36) operating in the Black Sea, the U.K. Ministry of Defense said in a Wednesday statement to USNI News.
“This morning, HMS Defender carried out a routine transit from Odessa towards Georgia across the Black Sea,” said U.K. MoD head Ben Wallace in the statement.
“As is normal for this route, she entered an internationally recognized traffic separation corridor. She exited that corridor safely at [4:45 a.m.] As is routine, Russian vessels shadowed her passage and she was made aware of training exercises in her wider vicinity.”

... news.usni.org ... https://news.usni.org/2021/06/23/u-k-mod-denies-russians-fired-warning-shots-dropped-bombs-near-warship-during-black-sea-transit ...

Parallelamente ... gov.uk ... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-signs-agreement-to-support-enhancement-of-ukrainian-naval-capabilities ...

 

[TT-1 Pinto]

Dal corrispondente della BBC a bordo dell'HMS Defender ...

Quote

Moscow's defence ministry said a patrol ship fired warning shots and a jet dropped bombs in the path of HMS Defender as it sailed some 12 miles (19km) off Crimea's coast.
The UK government rejected Russia's account of the incident and denied that any warning shots had been fired.
A BBC correspondent on the warship said it was harassed by Russia's military.
Aircraft could be heard overhead as BBC defence correspondent Jonathan Beale filed a report from the deck of HMS Defender in the Black Sea as it sailed to Georgia. 
He described hostile warnings over the radio as the warship's crew prepared for a possible confrontation.
Our correspondent, who had been invited on board the ship before the incident happened, saw more than 20 aircraft overhead and two Russian coastguard boats which at times were just 100m (328ft) away.

... bbc.com ... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57583363 ...

 

[nik978]

https://youtu.be/XgKTRZZg3Ac  Fonte russa (da network cinese)

 

[nik978]

Le due versioni continuano a non concordare (fonte russa che più russa non si può )

Modificato 28 Giugno 2021 da nik978

[TT-1 Pinto]

Carrier Strike Group (CSG21) ... aggiornamenti ...

... news.usni.org ... https://news.usni.org/2021/07/07/hms-queen-elizabeth-enters-middle-east-after-suez-canal-transit-carrier-eisenhower-now-in-atlantic#more-87135 ...

... news.usni.org ... https://news.usni.org/2021/07/22/carrier-hms-queen-elizabeth-drills-with-indian-navy-ahead-of-more-pacific-exercises

[TT-1 Pinto]

F-35B britannici sono stati riforniti in volo da un F/A-18E Super Hornet americano ...

Quote

 

F-35Bs from HMS Queen Elizabeth have refuelled from a US Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet.
According to the Royal Air Force:

“F-35B Lightnings from 617 Squadron have conducted Air to Air Refuelling from a US Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet for the first time. 
The refuelling sortie occurred during exercises with the US Navy aircraft carriers USS Ronald Reagan and USS Carl Vinson in the Pacific region. 
This was part of interoperability training, and is known as buddy-buddy refuelling.
During the exercise RAF Marham based 617 Squadron also took the opportunity to conduct a joint fly past with US Navy and US Marine Corps jets over the combined fleet of carriers and their escorts.”

 

... ukdefencejournal.org.uk ... https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-carrier-jets-refuel-from-us-navy-f-a-18e-super-hornet/ ...

 & 

 

[TT-1 Pinto]

Un "report" di Flight International rivela interessanti dettagli sull'operatività degli F-35B Anglo-Americani a bordo della portaerei Queen Elizabeth ...

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HMS Queen Elizabeth opens new era of UK airpower in Asia-Pacific ...

By Greg Waldron (Flight International) - 12 October 2021

FlightGlobal caught up with HMS Queen Elizabeth during a short port call in Singapore, following its extensive deployment in North Asia as part of the Carrier Strike Group 21 deployment.
The 65,000t vessel’s recent visit to the city-state marked the first time in years that a Royal Navy (RN) aircraft carrier called at the former British outpost.
The vessel had passed through the Singapore Straits in late July, but continued on to North Asia, where the RN had a busy schedule of exercises with regional allies including Australia, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea and the USA.
Prior to arriving back in Singapore, the carrier exercised with the Republic of Singapore Navy, with its Lockheed Martin F-35Bs working with Republic of Singapore Air Force Lockheed F-16s.
Given concerns about the coronavirus pandemic, the ship’s crew was restricted to the vessel during the stay in Singapore.
After testing negative for Covid-19, visitors to the ship were issued N95 masks and rubber surgical gloves.
A unique feature of Queen Elizabeth’s air wing is its joint nature, comprising 18 F-35Bs drawn from the Royal Air Force’s (RAF’s) 617 Squadron and the US Marine Corps’ (USMC’s) Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211.
In addition, the vessel carries Leonardo Helicopters AW101 Merlins from 820 and 845 Naval Air Squadrons.
The strike group’s commander, Commodore Steve Moorhouse, told a media gathering on the ship that cooperation and interoperability of the RAF and USMC F-35Bs has been excellent.
“As a commander, I’m almost blind to who’s flying it,” he says. “I ask for F-35s, and I don’t care which squadron they are coming from.”
This also carries over to the maintenance realm, where spare parts are shared between the RAF and USMC – in some cases, spares have come from other allied vessels.
That said, USMC and RAF engineers do not work on each other’s aircraft, mainly owing to permissions specific to the US and British governments.
Moreover, US Navy weapons loaders are present aboard Queen Elizabeth owing to differences in the weapons that USMC aircraft carry versus their RAF counterparts. Industry representatives are embarked to support both squadrons.
Moorhouse says learnings have travelled both ways.
The RN and RAF have benefited from the USMC’s experience with operating F-35Bs at sea.
The USMC, in turn, has learned about operating aircraft from a British carrier.
Moorhouse says sustainment has gone well and that readiness rates are good.
He notes that the F-35B, with its short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) capability, can pretty much operate from any flat top – even those from other nations.
“What we’ve also seen out here is the flexibility of the F-35B … where if you’re operating a big deck with F-35B, any nation can come and go, so you’ve got this incredible flexibility.”
Although the STOVL-capable F-35B as well as the F-35A (conventional take-off and landing) and F-35C (catapult assisted take-off but arrested recovery) are becoming more commonplace, there was considerable sensitivity around the low-observable type aboard Queen Elizabeth.
On typical aircraft carrier tours, visitors are free to wander up to aircraft and snap close-up pictures.
Aboard the Queen Elizabeth, however, visitors were asked to keep a respectful distance from the F-35Bs, particularly when taking photographs.
An “F-35B Photography Guide” in the media kit indicated sensitive areas that should not be directly photographed, such as the intakes, cockpit, lift-fan, and the rear of the engine.
On deck, every F-35B engine intake was covered, as was the interior of the thrust nozzle.
Pictures were not allowed in the hangar bay, where a few aircraft were undergoing maintenance.
Eighteen F-35Bs are embarked on the Carrier Strike Group 2021 deployment, but the vessel can carry up to 36.
An RN officer suggests that 36 fighters probably will not be part of the vessel’s typical load out.
Such a large contingent of embarked jets would have a considerable support footprint.
Still, the two main elevators can load a pair of F-35Bs each, supporting the rapid movement of aircraft down to and up from the hangar bay as necessary.
Another hallmark of Queen Elizabeth are the large display screens on her flight deck and in the hangar bay.
These inform the deck crew about air movements, such as which aircraft is about to take-off or land.
During the day the lettering is green, but this switches to red for night operations.
The vessel’s deck has a special coating that one officer says is “extremely expensive”.
It is designed to cope with – and rapidly dissipate – the high temperatures generated by the downward-directed jet wash from landing F-35Bs.
The deck coating is so effective at dissipating heat that flight deck crew can safely walk across the landing area after a fighter arrives.
During a media briefing aboard the ship Moorhouse was pressed about any encounters with Chinese forces during Queen Elizabeth’s voyage in the region.
He says that while Chinese units were sometimes in the task force’s vicinity, they kept a distance and behaved “professionally”.
RAF chief of the air staff Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston, who spoke with Moorhouse aboard the ship, adds that the RAF now operates similar types to air forces in the region.
These include the F-35, as well as assets such as the Airbus Defence & Space A330 multi-role tanker transport, A400M tactical transport, and Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.
These fleet similarities are consistent with the UK’s desire to play a greater role in the Asia-Pacific.
“For the first time in many decades, the Royal Air Force is operating similar platforms to a number of the air forces in the region,” says Wigston.
“That offers lots of opportunities for squadron exchanges, partnering…there’s lots of opportunities there.”
Following its short visit to Singapore, Queen Elizabeth will head back through the Straits of Malacca to the Andaman Sea and beyond.
The Carrier Strike Group is expected back in the UK well before Christmas.

 

 & 

 

[Flaggy]

Comprensibile la ritrosia a lasciar liberi i fotografi di puntare gli obiettivi su certi dettagli come lo scarico del motore dell'F-35B (e relative schermature dietro la turbina), ma volevo sottolineare questo punto oggetto in anni passati di infinite discussioni in merito allo scarico che “fondeva” il ponte...

Quote

The vessel’s deck has a special coating that one officer says is “extremely expensive”.
It is designed to cope with – and rapidly dissipate – the high temperatures generated by the downward-directed jet wash from landing F-35Bs.
The deck coating is so effective at dissipating heat that flight deck crew can safely walk across the landing area after a fighter arrives

 

In sostanza il ponte di certo non fonde.

Sulle navi britanniche il rivestimento non è lo stesso scelto dagli americani (e anche dagli italiani) e cioè il Thermion anche se di certo è un rivestimento costoso (comunque essendo più duraturo richiede meno manutenzione di quello tradizionale).

https://www.aereimilitari.org/forum/topic/18563-f-35-lightning-ii-discussione-ufficiale/?do=findComment&comment=319409

 

Modificato 12 Ottobre 2021 da Flaggy

[TT-1 Pinto]

La Queen Elizabeth ha lasciato Singapore ...

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Britain’s new aircraft carrier departed Singapore Tuesday, bringing an end to a nearly three month deployment to the western Pacific.
The deployment of the Royal Navy’s largest warship underscores the growing geopolitical complexities in the region, brought about in part by increasing Chinese assertiveness in the region.
The 65,000-ton HMS Queen Elizabeth had arrived in Singapore barely 24 hours earlier following exercises with the southeast Asian island nation’s military, which included the carrier’s Lockheed-Martin F-35B Lighting II Joint Strike Fighters training with Singaporean F-16 fighter jets.
The aircraft carrier carried 18 F-35Bs on this deployment, of which eight were from the Royal Air Force’s 617 Squadron and the remainder being U.S. Marine Corps aircraft from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron or VMFA 211.

... defensenews.com ... https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/10/12/a-british-aircraft-carrier-departs-singapore-amid-tensions-in-the-pacific/ ...

 bye bye 

[TT-1 Pinto]

HMS Prince of Wales ... 
Appena partita per un'importante missione negli Stati Uniti, la portaerei ha subìto un'avaria che l'ha praticamente immobilizzata ... 

Cita

The Royal Navy aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales has broken down less than 24 hours after setting sail for a "landmark mission" to the United States.
The £3 billion warship remained anchored off the southeast of the Isle of Wight on Sunday night after it encountered an "emerging mechanical issue".
The 900ft vessel, which only became fully operational last year, received a triumphant send-off on Saturday as she set sail from Portsmouth.
But the warship is now at anchor after suffering a technical fault - the latest setback for the vessel which has spent just 87 days of her first two years of service at sea.
A Royal Navy spokesperson said: “HMS Prince of Wales remains in the South Coast Exercise Area while conducting investigations into an emerging mechanical issue."
Divers have been inspecting the 65,000-tonne carrier below the waterline after damage was reported to the starboard propeller shaft, according to the Navy Lookout news site (*).
It was unclear on Sunday night whether the Prince of Wales would be forced to return to port to correct the issue.

... telegraph.co.uk ... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/28/hms-prince-wales-breaks-shortly-leaving-portsmouth/ ...

(*) ... navylookout.com ... https://www.navylookout.com/hms-prince-of-wales-suffers-technical-issue-after-sailing-from-portsmouth/ ...

  

  

[TT-1 Pinto]

Gli F-35 effettuano i primi atterraggi verticali rollanti sulla HMS Prince of Wales ...

Cita

Gli F-35 Joint Strike Fighters hanno effettuato il primo atterraggio verticale rollante (SRVL) sulla portaerei Prince of Wales della Royal Navy.
Nell'ultimo ciclo di test di sviluppo che integrano l'aereo da combattimento con la nave, attualmente in corso al largo degli Stati Uniti orientali, gli F-35B Joint Strike Fighters della "F-35 Integrated Test Force" hanno eseguito la tecnica di atterraggio appositamente sviluppata sul ponte di volo della nave il 19 Ottobre scorso.
L'SRVL combina la portanza motorizzata e quella alare per consentire un atterraggio rollante e l'arresto con i freni dell'aereo, piuttosto che portare l'aereo accanto alla nave in volo stazionario ed eseguire un atterraggio verticale.

... aviationweek.com ... https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/aircraft-propulsion/f-35s-make-first-rolling-vertical-landings-hms-prince-wales ...

Anche qui ... royalnavy.mod.uk ... https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2023/october/20/20231020-hms-prince-of-wales-fully-laden-f-35-paves-way-for-future-carrier-strike-ops ...

 & 

[TT-1 Pinto]

La portaerei della Royal Navy "HMS Prince of Wales" è tornata nel Regno Unito dopo il tour nella Costa Orientale degli Stati Uniti ...

Cita

La portaerei della Royal Navy "HMS Prince of Wales" (R09) è tornata alla base di Portsmouth Lunedì scorso, concludendo il dispiegamento "WESTLANT 23", durato tre mesi, che ha visto la portaerei condurre numerose prove nelle acque al largo della Costa Orientale degli Stati Uniti.
Le prove erano mirate ad espandere le capacità operative delle due portaerei classe "Queen Elizabeth" della Royal Navy.

... news.usni.org ... https://news.usni.org/2023/12/12/royal-navy-carrier-hms-prince-of-wales-returns-to-u-k-after-east-coast-tour ...

 & 

[TT-1 Pinto]

Un flop imbarazzante   …

Cita

Il ministro della Difesa britannico Grant Shapps e altri alti funzionari erano a bordo di un sottomarino nucleare della Royal Navy quando il lancio di prova di un missile a testata nucleare Trident II 5 è fallito il mese scorso.
La mancata accensione ha visto il missile schiantarsi di nuovo in mare vicino al sottomarino HMS Vanguard che stava effettuando operazioni dimostrative e di shakedown al largo della costa della Florida dopo un programma di manutenzione approfondita durato sette anni.

... defensenews.com ... https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/02/21/uk-trident-submarine-missile-launch-failed-with-top-brass-aboard/ ...